Posts by Had Enough

32

To Jayhawk - Proclaimers Book Quotes

by YoYoMama in

jw
friends

c. t. russell had been critical of those who had set various dates for the lords return, such as william miller and some second adventist groups.

*** jv 61-3 6 a time of testing (1914-1918) ***.

the years from 1914 to 1918 did, indeed, prove to be a testing season for the bible students.

Had Enough

Yo YoMama:

You have jumped on some statements here but have ignored some very valid points and questions, such as:

-Uncle Bruce provided many dogmatic quotation about 1975 alone that subtly put the pressure on all and caused many to alter their lives to show their faith and love for god in those last days. Why did we believe it?... because the GB time and time again hammered into us that their words to us were directed from god.

So how do you justify their "explanation" in the 1976 WT where they said:

“If anyone has been disappointed through not following this line of thought, he should now concentrate on adjusting his viewpoint, seeing that it was not the word of God that failed or deceived him and brought disappointment, but that his own understanding was based on wrong premises.” In saying “anyone,” The Watchtower included all disappointed ones of Jehovah’s Witnesses, hence including persons having to do with the publication of the information that contributed to the buildup of hopes centered on that date.

(contributed" should actually read "caused" IMHO.)

-LPH said: Right now JWs are dying because they don't understand the WTS's blood policy. Other died for things that are now OK. Children are being abused by elders and the WTS protects the elders. This generation is trashed. People have felony records or are in jail because of a policy on alternative service that was overturned

How do you explain that? and....

-Will Power asked:"Are there people who have already died believing & teaching others these "mistakes" who have not recieved so much as an "oooops".

How is this the "acceptable will" of god. Howcome god allows his "mouthpiece" to make such significant "mistakes" causing peoples lives. What possible purpose does it serve? Is it proof of his love?

-OUTLAWsaid: "after lying for decades to people ,they tell them it was their own fault for comming to those conclusions!"

Yes, just last week an elder explained from the platform how the 1975 hype was "all the fault of the r&f" and the GB had to step in and "straighten" the whole mess out. <------LIES

If you are going to defend the WTS, then these are questions that cannot be ignored.

Had Enough

"Never doubt that a small group of citizens can change the world.
Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."...Margaret Mead

15

The Watchtower Society and disfellowshipping

by teejay in

jw
friends

i was doing a little websurfing... not hurtin' nobody... mindin' my own bidness... and found myself at the wts official website.

over on the righthand side i noticed a "search" button.

hmmm.

Had Enough

Yes nelly. In your quote, it never ceases to amaze me to see to what lengths the WTS will go to subtly paint the non-JW as the one causing the problems with "irrelevant issues" in the legal issue.

And again on the issue of "disfellowshipped" they ask the question: "What, though, if one of the parents is disfellowshipped?"

And the answer is? "The disfellowshipping process of the congregation only alters the spiritual relationship between the individual and the Christian congregation. In fact, it severs the spiritual bonds. But the parent-child relationship remains intact."

This again leads (or should I say misleads) the public to think that family relationships are not affected by disfellowshipping. What happens when the child gets baptised? That child has to shun its own parent. But of course there is no mention of that.

And what do they say (for the public's view) as for the relationship with the rest of the congregation? It "only alters the spiritual relationship between the individual and the Christian congregation."

Yeah....in a pig's eye!!!

Somewhere in their own written words there is a statement saying that omission of facts is, in reality, to lie.

And they call us the liars. argggghhhhh!

teejay: Thanks for bringing up this topic! (even though it makes be boil) It is one that the public should be made aware of.

Had Enough

"Never doubt that a small group of citizens can change the world.
Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."...Margaret Mead

15

The Watchtower Society and disfellowshipping

by teejay in

jw
friends

i was doing a little websurfing... not hurtin' nobody... mindin' my own bidness... and found myself at the wts official website.

over on the righthand side i noticed a "search" button.

hmmm.

Had Enough

nelly and Ritchie:

I so agree - the official WT site is strictly pr for the public.

In the search feature, when I type in "disfellowshipping", I get only 1 reference entitled: "Child custody-A Balanced View"

When I type in "disfellowshipped", I get only 4 references:
"Child Custody-A Balanced View"
"Child Custody-What is In The Child's Best Interest?"
"Child Custody-Religion and The Law"
"Negotiating a Resonable Bride Price" which states "A Christian who greedily and unrepentantly extorts a high bride-price may even be disfellowshipped from the congregation.—1 Corinthians 5:11, 13; 6:9, 10."

So there you have it folks: No explanation of "why" other than if a person is breaking the law by asking more that the law allows in a bride-price, and "it does not sever family ties".

Lies by omission and lies by misleading statements....so very typical.

I also did a search on the word "shunned" and found only 2 references in "What Do JWs Believe", both exactly the same article but in different formats. But did it explain for the public that df'd persons are shunned by all including family? NO! It says "Spiritism is to be shunned"

And under "shun", 2 articles: "Is Bible Morality the Best?" with only 1 mention - "Do we not respect politicians, policemen, and judges who shun corruption?"...and...

"Fighting Corruption With the Sword of the Spirit" which described example of a man who "joined a gang that practiced racketeering, extortion, and bribery" and decided to change after reading the scripture in Proverbs" "'Into the path of the wicked ones do not enter, and do not walk straight on into the way of the bad ones. Shun it, do not pass along by it; turn aside from it, and pass along.' He said: "Passages such as this convinced me that those who want to lead a criminal life have no real future."

So the only mention of the practice of shunning is references to shunning bad practices or corruption, criminal practices and dishonesty, but no mention of their real use of the word.

Again...lies by omission of the truth.

Had Enough

"Never doubt that a small group of citizens can change the world.
Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."...Margaret Mead

7

1975 audio clip

by oscartheduck in

jw
friends

thought this was very revealing: http://www.watchtowernews.org/wav/sunutko75.html.

you need realplayer to listen in.

fantastic stuff.

Had Enough

I already mentioned this on another thread but it also fits in this thread.

I was told that an elder said in his talk last sunday that all the excitement and hype over the end coming by 1975 was the fault of the publishers not the WTS and the WTS had to step in a straighten out the error. He even admitted that he too was caught up in it and expected the end by 1975 but wow...he was wrong. Imagine that!!!

With these tapes and all the proof of what was written in the mags, books and kms for 7-8 years before 1975, is it any wonder the poor lowly publisher got anxious. How about those COs who when visiting the congregations, would hold up a calendar and mark off the days as they passed, or the ones who held up a clock with the hands showing 1 minute to 12 saying the big A was no longer around the corner but on our doorstep and so on and so on. Like Alan said, these speakers were not speaking their own words. Whenever do they?

Yes and I've heard my own brother say in a crowd that the 1975 fiasco was all started by Ray Franz and that's why he was df'd.... Give me a break!!!

Had Enough

"Never doubt that a small group of citizens can change the world.
Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."...Margaret Mead

5

Question on Installing WTS CD-ROM

by Had Enough in

jw
friends

can anyone with more computer techie knowledge than i have help me?.

i have a question on installing the newest version of the wts cd-rom because, in the recent topic on "yearbook experiences" an experiences was related from the 1971 yearbook, and thirdson requested a copy of it as his cd-rom only had yearbooks back to 1980.. this prompted me to check my 1995 version, and the yearbooks go back to 1971, so if i install my newer version, i understand it overrides the installed older version and therefore some older info will be lost.

i don't want to lose this older stuff as it is good to be able to reference it to compare all the flipflops and incriminating statements they've made to date.. soooooo.... my question: is there a way i can retain the older version on my harddrive and still install the newest version?.

Had Enough

Hi dungbeetle:

I've been out all day and just got back so here is the experience. It was related on the "Experiences from the 2002 Yearbook...venting" thread.

It was a prime example of the all the head games the WTS played with the lowly rank and file in relating the extent many went to to get to assemblies during the years before 1975, emphasing in a subtle way how, in this case, there was no need for retirement funds.

This experience is of a man in 1971 with 11 children who gave up his retirement fund, (after years of paying into it), to finance his family to attend an assembly, because he reasoned "that integrity and faith in Jehovah will get one through the coming tribulation whether one has money in a fund or not, he resolved to invest his fund toward guaranteeing his family’s future spiritual survival".

It was just another examply of how the WTS weaved the thought of how close the end was. Now I wonder what this man is doing 30 years later when he no doubt if still living, is of retirement age.

Just as an added thought too...I mentioned in the other thread, someone told me that just this past weekend, an elder said in his talk, that the hype of the end coming by 1975 was {b]all the fault of the publishers, not the WTS. The WTS then had to step in and straighten the error of the r&f out after that.

Here is the experience from the 1971 Yearbook.

*** yb71 134-5 Country Reports (Part One) ***
WESTERN SAMOA Population: 140,000
Peak Publishers: 92 Ratio: 1 to 1,522

A brother with a family of eleven, including an adopted daughter and pioneer living with them, wanted to get all of them overseas to the international assembly in Fiji. Only one source of finance was available. His employers kept a superannuation fund to be withdrawn on retirement or in very exceptional circumstances. Having worked there many years, the brother figured he would have enough in it to get the family to the assembly. Reasoning that integrity and faith in Jehovah will get one through the coming tribulation whether one has money in a fund or not, he resolved to invest his fund toward guaranteeing his family’s future spiritual survival.

It was not until the week of travel to the assembly that he was able to contact his managing director. Naturally, his director felt as many would. He wondered why a family man would wish to withdraw his only security against the future and chance leaving nothing for them if something happened to him. The brother explained the importance to him and his family as Jehovah’s worshipers of attending the assembly and that this was the only way for them to get to Fiji. His being a respected and trusted employee, his director favorably granted the request and made an unprecedented exception in letting him withdraw his superannuation fund in full. Happy and thankful to Jehovah for this blessing, he went the following day and paid his family’s ship fares to Fiji. The family then joyfully prepared to leave.

Later that week, however, the brother was informed that the ship was strike-bound in another country and would not be sailing as expected. The only other way out of the country, so as to be at the assembly in time, was by air at greater expense. Suffice it to say that the brother and his family enjoyed the assembly, with no regrets. They know that only spiritual steadfastness, faith and obedience to Jehovah will preserve them, in the future and not transient material possessions.

This is just one example among the many others that the WTS used to slyly hint of the nearness of the end...like the ones of those who sold their homes to pioneer, or who gave up a good-paying job to help where the need is greater for the "short remaining time", or the young ones who went pioneering instead of going to university etc. etc. etc.

Had Enough

"Never doubt that a small group of citizens can change the world.
Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."...Margaret Mead[/b]

5

Question on Installing WTS CD-ROM

by Had Enough in

jw
friends

can anyone with more computer techie knowledge than i have help me?.

i have a question on installing the newest version of the wts cd-rom because, in the recent topic on "yearbook experiences" an experiences was related from the 1971 yearbook, and thirdson requested a copy of it as his cd-rom only had yearbooks back to 1980.. this prompted me to check my 1995 version, and the yearbooks go back to 1971, so if i install my newer version, i understand it overrides the installed older version and therefore some older info will be lost.

i don't want to lose this older stuff as it is good to be able to reference it to compare all the flipflops and incriminating statements they've made to date.. soooooo.... my question: is there a way i can retain the older version on my harddrive and still install the newest version?.

Had Enough

Hey mindfield! Thanks for the reply.

duh!!!! its that simple eh? I didn't think of that!!!

I was thinking only that I'd get halfway through the installation and only have the option to override the existing version.

Thanks again ...as I said... there's way too much good incriminating stuff in the older pubs!

Had Enough

"Never doubt that a small group of citizens can change the world.
Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."...Margaret Mead

5

Question on Installing WTS CD-ROM

by Had Enough in

jw
friends

can anyone with more computer techie knowledge than i have help me?.

i have a question on installing the newest version of the wts cd-rom because, in the recent topic on "yearbook experiences" an experiences was related from the 1971 yearbook, and thirdson requested a copy of it as his cd-rom only had yearbooks back to 1980.. this prompted me to check my 1995 version, and the yearbooks go back to 1971, so if i install my newer version, i understand it overrides the installed older version and therefore some older info will be lost.

i don't want to lose this older stuff as it is good to be able to reference it to compare all the flipflops and incriminating statements they've made to date.. soooooo.... my question: is there a way i can retain the older version on my harddrive and still install the newest version?.

Had Enough

Can anyone with more computer techie knowledge than I have help me?

I have a question on installing the newest version of the WTS CD-ROM because, in the recent topic on "Yearbook Experiences" an experiences was related from the 1971 Yearbook, and Thirdson requested a copy of it as his CD-ROM only had Yearbooks back to 1980.

This prompted me to check my 1995 version, and the Yearbooks go back to 1971, so if I install my newer version, I understand it overrides the installed older version and therefore some older info will be lost. I don't want to lose this older stuff as it is good to be able to reference it to compare all the flipflops and incriminating statements they've made to date.

Soooooo.... my question: Is there a way I can retain the older version on my harddrive and still install the newest version?

Any help is "muchly" appreciated!!

Had Enough

"Never doubt that a small group of citizens can change the world.
Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."...Margaret Mead

13

experiences from the 2002 yearbook.....venting

by flower in

jw
friends

if i have to sit here and listen to the father reading any more experiences from the yearbook i'm gonna puke.

hes all happy cause they are such great experiences.

they hold on so desperately to hear something exciting because their own daily lives are so bleak.

Had Enough

Thirdson:

Here is the experience from the 1971 Yearbook.

What version of the CD-ROM do you have that only has the Yearbooks back to 1980?

The version I found it on is the 1995 version, but I have just received the newest 1999 version from a friend. If thats what you have, then I'm reluctant to install the newer version as it overrides the older one and this stuff will be lost.

Let me know will you please as I will have a lot of saving of stuff to do before I install my newer version.

Anyway, this experience is a prime example of the hype that influenced people to put their faith in the "End Coming In 1975" fiasco.

I was told that an elder gave a talk just last Sunday saying that the 1975 hysteria was caused by overzealous publishers...it was all their fault so the WTS had to step in to correct the error.

Sheesh am I ever glad I wasn't there to hear that...I would have had to do some serious restraining or get up and walk out for sure.

So here is the experience:

*** yb71 134-5 Country Reports (Part One) ***
WESTERN SAMOA Population: 140,000
Peak Publishers: 92 Ratio: 1 to 1,522

A brother with a family of eleven, including an adopted daughter and pioneer living with them, wanted to get all of them overseas to the international assembly in Fiji. Only one source of finance was available. His employers kept a superannuation fund to be withdrawn on retirement or in very exceptional circumstances. Having worked there many years, the brother figured he would have enough in it to get the family to the assembly. Reasoning that integrity and faith in Jehovah will get one through the coming tribulation whether one has money in a fund or not, he resolved to invest his fund toward guaranteeing his family’s future spiritual survival.

It was not until the week of travel to the assembly that he was able to contact his managing director. Naturally, his director felt as many would. He wondered why a family man would wish to withdraw his only security against the future and chance leaving nothing for them if something happened to him. The brother explained the importance to him and his family as Jehovah’s worshipers of attending the assembly and that this was the only way for them to get to Fiji. His being a respected and trusted employee, his director favorably granted the request and made an unprecedented exception in letting him withdraw his superannuation fund in full. Happy and thankful to Jehovah for this blessing, he went the following day and paid his family’s ship fares to Fiji. The family then joyfully prepared to leave.

Later that week, however, the brother was informed that the ship was strike-bound in another country and would not be sailing as expected. The only other way out of the country, so as to be at the assembly in time, was by air at greater expense. Suffice it to say that the brother and his family enjoyed the assembly, with no regrets. They know that only spiritual steadfastness, faith and obedience to Jehovah will preserve them. in the future and not transient material possessions.

Had Enough

"Never doubt that a small group of citizens can change the world.
Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."...Margaret Mead

24

CO&PO came to see me

by GermanXJW in

i have been inactive for a year now.

before that i was quite active, had only an average time slip but did a lot of things you cannot count.

but i had read r.franz and the internet.

Had Enough

Hello GermanJW:

I can truly understand the turmoil you are going through, but as you can see from the responses you've received, there are many here who really do care for you and others in your shoes. The outpouring of fellow-feeling, understanding and support one gets here is what we all need it seems, no matter what stage of recovery we are in.

I was told when I first posted here, to expect my life to be like being on a rollarcoaster. I am still finding that is true, that it is so easy to feel feisty one day and then allow ourselves to fall into a slump again. But still, coming here, even if I don't post, pulls me back up out of that slump, by reading others' informative posts that bolster up my convictions, or some posts filled with love that make me feel worthwhile again, or someone's funny post that makes me laugh again.

But why let yourself feel guilty. You said:

they will still defend the whole thing. The CO even said: "Imagine Russell looking down from heaven and saying: They should stop talking about that Pyramid, I know now it was a mistake." He also mentioned 1975. And he says that there are things today we will feel strange about in the future. But he came to conclusion that we have to endure and keep on preaching, and keep on attending meetings etc. ....

They are doing exactly what is to be expected of a JW....defending their "truths" against pure logic such as:

How can all those "mistakes" have been from a "God-directed organization"?
Aren't JWs told that when some "new light" is made known, that it has come from God?
How can a loving God allow so many of his "sheep" to be hurt by unloving shepherds (who were supposed to have been appointed by God in the first place).
How can a loving God allow little children to be molested for years without bringing the molester to justice? Does God care more about bringing no reproach on his name than he does about the lives of these children?

We all know the long list of logical questions goes on and on, but still, true-blue loyal JWs will defend their precious organization rules over logic. That shouldn't make us feel guilty...only righteously indignant.

Come here and enjoy the ride!

Had Enough

"Never doubt that a small group of citizens can change the world.
Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."...Margaret Mead

50

Worried about my Dad in hospital :(

by Simon in

jw
friends

we visited angharad's parents at the weekend and got a call on sunday night from her sister who'd been called by my sister as they hadn't been able to contact us .... the message was not a happy one:.

my dad has had a heart attack and was in intensive care in hospital.. it was a while before i managed to speak to anyone over there with people probably out but i eventually spoke to his wife who says he's doing ok and has now been moved to the main ward but is being kept in as you would expect.

he may have to be moved to calgary for some investigation / tests.. he had heart surgery about 15 years ago and i think 4 of his 5 bypasses have failed so he has to take quite a bit of medicine for pain and stuff.

Had Enough

Hi Simon:

I'm so sorry to hear about your dad. I hope you can arrange to see him and I hope you do decide to invite your sisters to go with you.

If they decline, as AlanF says, you'll "pour the proverbial "hot coals" over their heads". Then the memory of their rejection will have to rest on their consciences and you can rest easy that you have done all you can to promote true family love and put it behind you.

They will be the ones showing the true JW "lack" of love contrary to the WTS crowing of promoting love and you will be the one proving your true feelings of love for your family.

I send my concern and love to you and Angharad.

Had Enough

"Never doubt that a small group of citizens can change the world.
Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."...Margaret Mead